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« Hillary's Racist Supporters | Main | I Need to Think About Something Else For a While »

April 23, 2008


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I confess I'm bewildered by some of the much being thrown in the contest, more y overheated supporters than the candidates themselves. I'm not alone in my bewilderment, it's been blogged several times in the Australian blogosphere and elsewhere outside the US. To the calm and rational eye of an unbiased observer in another hemisphere the policies and the personalities of the 2 surviving candidates are just not that far apart.

We're also, just quietly, bewildered by the various and somewhat unreliable formulas in each state for allocating delegates. It's the 21st century. Holding an election, whether it's a nominating contest or whatever, that avoids wrong winner results, is just not that difficult.

There's also a sense of mounting horror and unease that Democratic divisions may open the door to McCain.

here's productive: you dumb arsed (harsh, sure, but fair considering the last two election results) democrats better not fuck this up.

It has struck me as odd that the people who refer to Clinton as a b-word most often are her own "supporters", and then they try to tar others who've never used that language with it. Never mind the rest of the vile garbage that Lambert spews...I wonder if he gives spitting lessons to all his friends?

And charges of elitism are such a great cover-up for racism, aren't they? With the added benefit of also insulting anyone with more education or a better job than the person making the charge.

I hate to be getting an attitude, but I'm starting to notice that some folks (not all, by any means, but quite a few) who support Hillary are just plain mean and nasty these days. And they're so locked into this 'battle' that I think they honestly secretly want Obama to lose to McCain in the fall, so that they can walk around as martyrs telling everyone "I told you so". No word on how they feel about Hillary being just as happy to "totally obliterate" Iran as McCain is...

When someone says "elitist" my mind automatically translates it as "uppity." As in "that uppity boy just doesn't know his place."

And, yes, the Hillary supporters do seem to be trending towards meaner and viler by the day.

Remember 2004 and all the vinegar surrounding Dean? Now, folks hardly remember it.

This, too, shall pass.

"I may as well characterize Clinton supporters' views as "Who does that uppity nigger think he is?" Would that be fair? Would that be productive?"

At this point it would be totally fair, if not productive. I mean, if someone's going to mischaracterize me deliberately as a sexist, elitist, naive, overeducated, uneducated, etc, then yeah I think it's fair to call them racists. That is especially true because while I can name specific things about Clinton that I do not support (NAFTA, Kyl-Lieberman, the vote for war in Iraq, DLC/corporate pandering) none of them can point to ANYTHING specific about Obama. It's always generalized feelings that smack of excuses for something unspeakable.

Kinda like when I moved into a majority black neighborhood and people warned me to watch out for "them". When I would ask "who are 'they'?" I'd get nervous shifty looks and answers that began with, "I'm not a racist, but YOU KNOW HOW IT IS..."

And considering that clinton's campaigners avoided west Philly for "security concerns", I feel very comfortable in my judgement.

One of the reasons I desperately want this primary to be over is so I can again read certain blogs by people I like and respect. Read without cringing, that is. Obama Derangement Syndrome has turned a lot of otherwise decent people into raving lunatics.

I support Hillary Clinton, and I am not mean, vile, nasty, or a raving lunatic. In fact, I am nice, smart, thoughtful, decent and sane. I am sure that if you met me in person, which some of you have, I would not be one of those "motherfuckers" whom you want to "punch in the jaw". I just happen to have different opinions and priorities than you.

For example, I want a president who will be truly committed to standing up for women. Is that so evil that I (or other like-minded Hillary supporters) deserve a punch in the jaw?

Can't we all just cool our jets a little?

(And to pre-empt the responses that I anticipate: no, I don't want McCain to win; no, I don't agree with everything that other Clinton supporters have said or written, especially not the mean ones; no, I don't agree with everything that the Clinton campaign has done, especially not the mean things; and yes, there are a lot of things I like about Obama.)

I support Hillary Clinton, and I am not mean, vile, nasty, or a raving lunatic.

damn straight. i'm the raving lunatic in this relationship!

The raving lunatic in my house doesn't read blogs.

Mrs. Noz, you are precisely the person I was thinking of when I said not all, by any means... I really wish more people on both sides were as nice, thoughtful, decent, and sane as you. I respect your opinion and your right to choose whom you vote for based on your positions on the issues. We all should vote our conscience, and stop acting like it's a moral failing to vote for the other candidate!

It's the vicious name-calling and outright personal attacks on people via the internet (a la Lambert and others) that I have trouble with.

I'll support either of them if they win the nomination, but at the moment, I find them both pretty icky. They're not the candidates we should have.

Barack doesn't have to fight Hillary. This is the simple lie that is used to justify the ickiness on either side - that they "have to" fight each other instead of fighting the Republicans as they should be.

Well, that's just bollocks. The answer to every single fake issue the media brings up with either one of them is that John McCain wants to stay in Iraq and refuses to acknowledge the full measure of the fuck-up Bush has wrought here, there, and everywhere. It is that John McCain has no intention of reversing what Bush has done, and that he will continue the corrosive policies that are destroying America. He's a lying, corrupt, divisive little shit whose suffering in Vietnam in no way mitigates the fact that his ambition has allowed him to become his enemy.

Obama doesn't have to defend or repudiate Rev. Wright, but that's what he's chosen to do instead of talking about the real divisiveness that all this fake religionizing has brought us. Clinton doesn't have to repudiate Obama's statements or his preacher or anything else Democrats/liberals do - she, like he, should take every attack as an opportunity to fight the media and the Republicans.

I don't care to see any more of how they can fight Democrats - I want to elect a president who can fight conservative maniacs.

Both of them need to stop dissing the base. Both of them need to stop sneering at progressives, at bloggers, at activists, at people who still carry the banner of civil rights and women's rights and unions and all the other things that have made our country a better place and once made it the envy of the world. They both do it - Obama is just slicker at it and Hillary's wrong-footing makes her a more obvious target, but neither one of them have been respectful to the people they will need in November.

What conservatives have done to our country is immoral. That's all Clinton and Obama need to say about religion, about patriotism, or anything else. What Republicans are doing is immoral. Show me that you can make that statement and look like you mean it and then, and only then, will I endorse a candidate for the nomination. Right now I just wish they'd both climb in a hole and let someone else do the job.

Thanks, CabinGirl! Reasonable people should be able to disagree without stooping to the ridiculous vitriol that's been thrown around by both candidates' supporters. It's really hard to avoid getting defensive when it is repeatedly suggested that "Hillary supporters" are a bunch of racists.... just like it must be hard to avoid getting defensive when people make insulting claims about "Obama supporters" as if they are a monolithic group whose members all believe what the most idiotic or offensive one among them believes. Intelligent, thinking, liberal people can have good reasons for supporting either candidate, and it is so counterproductive to spend time insulting one another. (Even though it is tempting to do so when frustrated.) Anyway, I do appreciate that in your initial statement, you qualified your comments about Hillary supporters by saying "not all".... :)

Mithras, I did not say it was Obama's fault. It's going to be his *job* to drive the narrative and he might as well get started on it now.

Watch for much more of that "child" stuff. That's Christ-crazy talk. I forget which horseshit bible verse it comes from, but it's the snake-handler's preferred form of condescension.

"This prick" welcomes your hatred....

this 'prick' welcomes your hatred

Yes, a prick and a coward who comments on other blogs but censors pro-Obama views by not approving comment registration requests on your own blog.

If indeed you've applied for an account, it's either been approved or it's in queue again. I do screen for Russian spammers, but presumably your address doesn't look like that. Thank you for sharing.

And on account approval: We implemented it after, like Digby, we began to experience an troll infestation that would have destroyed the site. I'm sure you'll be the first to understand how time-consuming it is to moderate threads. Unfortunately, the check I get for the Hillary shilling I do just wasn't enough to cover the labor. Sorry I can't live up to your expectations in this matter.

You are right, prick, and I am wrong. My account was approved even though the email I received said it was awaiting moderation.

So, not a coward, just a prick. Congratulations.

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