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January 08, 2008


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Heh! I can just about guess the things that were said last night and who said them. *grin*

That's exactly what the DNC/DLC is counting on to foist their GOP-lite candidate on us. I will not vote for HRC under any circumstances but since I live in CA, I do not think my "protest" vote will matter in the overall result.

Sure Lance, maybe Nader will jump in, and give us a real alternative, same as last time.

That's my point, real alternatives get weeded out early. The GOP is itching for HRC to be the Democratic candidate. That's a good reason for her not to get the position. I'm voting Edwards or Kucinich in the primary; we'll see how I feel in the general but since the Dems have made it a point to back out on so many of the views of those who put them into office, I'll be damned if I greenlight the Queen of AIPAC's war for shit.

Not a dime's worth of difference among 'em.

You sound about as level headed as those you claim to be "idiots and maniacs.....". Your kind of political endorsements are a diversion from looking for solutions to real problems. No one party has a lock on what is "best" for America. It is your kind of blogging that, like your counter parts, is divisive (maybe that is your intent) not cohesive. We need to foster a state of understanding and cooperation not division!

For the record I agree that Nader was an unfortunate spoiler despite his perfect right to enter the fray. I did not vote for him. I held my nose when I voted Gore/Lieberman in 2000 (liked Gore well enough, saw Lieberman as a phony then with all his crazy 'god in govt' talk). I felt a Edwards/Clark - Clark/Edwards ticket would have been unbeatable but somehow John Kerry got to lead the parade. I voted for him and was horrified when he bailed on his promises to contest vote fraud.

This time around, it's as if the Dems want to field their own spoiler in the guise of HRC. The difference I see amongst the candidates is not only more than a dime's worth, it's a cautiousness against stealth hawks that will do the neocons work with the supposed stamp of approval of liberals and progressives. I hate Rethuglican governance, but that does not mean I will willingly hand the reins to a 5th columnist because there is no one else that made the cut. Again, my vote in CA will not cancel out anyone's in the general because I'll most likely abstain from the prez race if the Dem selection is HRC. It's 'defeat from the jaws of victory' candidates such as her that consign the Dems to 2nd class status. Her negatives among Dems is great for a reason, not because people have bought into GOP talking points. The fact that Dem leadership still wants to treat her as viable is quite telling. If she gets the nomination, I too hope she wins over a Rethuglican, but it won't be with my vote. She doesn't deserve it.

Kumbaya, my Lord, kumbaya.

that does not mean I will willingly hand the reins to a 5th columnist because there is no one else that made the cut.

I see what you're saying. She's a rightwing turncoat; that's why the GOP impeached Bill, so she could become the candidate on the sympathy vote. Plausible.

Her negatives among Dems is great for a reason, not because people have bought into GOP talking points.

You mean she really did have Vince Foster killed? I think someone owes an apology to Richard Scaife.

I think she hurt her liberal/progressive bona fides with her desire to keep from appearing weak on foreign poicy by attempting to saber rattle with the boys so she would not lose AIPAC's blessings. A principled stand shows so much more courage and would actually resonate with the Democratic party faithful. It makes no sense to try to appeal to a segment that will not vote for you regardless while alienating the actual base. The actions of Pelosi and Reid make my point in this regard.

As far as negatives, one need not go into Vince Foster territory (I do not think he was murdered but have no info either way) to find areas of concern. Having Code Pink members arrested that visited her Congressional office, planted questions, war posturing, neocon rubber stamping, scorched earth attacks on other Dem candidates, continued reassurances to AIPAC, etc. are the type of things that have turned me off of her candidacy.

Just so you know, I actually pretty much agree with you and my positions my be considered largely a devil's advocate one. That being said, I feel that HRC's run is being sanctioned by the DLC/DNC because they feel she is safe in regards to their power block regardless the direction the Dem base may want to take.

In 2004, many thought ABB (Anybody But Bush) would be enough to propel the Dems to victory (myself included) even with the danger of widescale election fraud. Turns out the lackluster candidacy and campaign of John Kerry was indeed a stumbling block.

I fear a similar outcome by running HRC as the Dem nominee. Sure, at some point I may feel that holding my nose and voting for Clinton to keep a Rethuglican out of the office is the only viable option, but I'm damned pissed that the Dems are fielding a candidate that requires one to to pick the somewhat lesser of two evils when the GOP candidates are all so remarkably pathetic (save Ron Paul). If we had an Instant Runoff Voting system, I'm not sure those not having HRC as their 1st pick would put her very high on the list for subsequent picks. This is born out by polling and it is something for Dems to consider. If we do not address this now, when we get to the general election, it will be too late and the Dems will have shown that it is possible to be 3-time losers even in an atmosphere of widespread distrust and dissatisfaction with GOP candidates and policies. If the race is even close, the danger of more Rethuglican shenanigans to engineer yet another election theft is great.

My position is motivated by relative uncertainty. I am not certain what the important differences would be between a Obama presidency and a Hillary Clinton presidency, but I much more certain about the differences between any Democratic administration and any Republican one (based on the current, serious contenders).

Anyway, picking the lesser of two evils may not make us happy, but lets assure the lesser is picked, shall we?

Well put and for that you deserve the last word. TTFN!

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