"The Important Thing is That I Am a Christian."

Pluralism? Fuck that:

Republican presidential candidate John McCain said Monday that questions over whether he identifies himself as a Baptist or an Episcopalian are not as important as his overarching faith. "The most important thing is that I am a Christian," the Arizona senator told reporters following two campaign stops in [South Carolina]. ...

McCain grew up Episcopalian and attended an Episcopal high school in Alexandria, Va. On Monday, he spoke briefly about that history and about the Baptist church he now attends. Then, after saying his overall faith is what's important, he concluded: "I don't have anything else to say about that issue."

"You see, Abdul, Yitzak and Mitt, this is a Christian nation. And I shall be its king. Booyah!" McCain continued.

Comments

[muumuu]

After reading that.........the important thing is that I am drunk!

[El Tiburon]

Christian Shmristian, Jew Schmoo,

As long as we all hate the ragheads.

And the homo-gays.

And the negros.

And the Mexicans.

[Ralph Kramden]

Will someone, regardless of sobriety, please explain to an ignorant Jew what difference it makes to Baptists and Episcopals whether someone is one or the other?

[s9]

Yeah, but most of all, we hate those fucking atheists. They just need to be rounded up and eliminated.

[Mithras]

please explain to an ignorant Jew what difference it makes to Baptists and Episcopals whether someone is one or the other?

Dude, you know about being part of a tribe. They just don't think of themselves as part of the same group, unless it's for banding against the aforementioned gays and atheists. Oh, and you, unless you intend to bring the Millenium and destroy Israel. Yeeha!

[Bruce]

Ralph, here's the difference.

The Episcopalians are like Temple Emanu-El on the Upper East Side. The Baptists are like Chabad. Sociologically, demographically, religiously, why would it make a difference between the two groups - they are both Jewish, so why the distinction?

[Mithras]

For that matter, Bruce, the Episcopal Church is flying apart because a lot of them hate teh gay, and if I remember correctly, the biggest Baptist branch regularly purges those who try to change their doctrine.

[blogenfreude]

What would I give for a president who spent no time in church and used that time to fix New Orleans and undo Bush? You can't imagine.

[Peter Principle]

Re: Baptists versus Episcopal. Speaking from a Southern perspective (which is where the two sects historically have really rubbed each other raw) it's almost purely a class distinction. Baptists are tenant farmin', snake handlin' goobers who speak in tongues, while Episcopalians sit around on their verandas drinking mint julips and toasting the memory or Robert E. Lee.

I exaggerate, of course. But the class differences are (or at least, were) very real and keenly felt on both sides.

[Angry One]

McCain is just the latest victim of the "Republicans' God Trap."

[Spud1]

El Tiburon:

You obviously have not been involved in a good schism. In the old days, people would kill the infidels.

Oh wait - can I still use that word when talking about JESUS!

[Jim H]

Sure, we can all agree to hate Episcopalians, Muslims, Negroes and gays -- but what's the matter with musicians?

[renska]

Episcopalians are sometimes referred to as the "frozen chosen."

From a northerners perspective, I agree that there can be a class distinction to the Episcopalian thing, although since the earliest settlers up here were the Puritans, we share the snob factor with the Congregationalists. The Episcopal church is also the place straying Catholics are likely to end up as there is seemingly little difference between the two, aside from the obvious lack of pope on our side.

There's some sort of convention each year that's supposed to establish what's what across all the bishophrics, but that doesn't always work out in practice (ie, back in 1985, the Bishop of lower NY refused to ordain my friend's mother (she being female and all); meanwhile a bishop further "upstate" was willing to). Meanwhile, female priests had been ordained elsewhere as early as 1973, I believe.

The Episcopal church's recent public split over "teh gay" is partially due to infiltration (there's been a strategy over the years to infiltrate and split liberal congregations in a variety of denominations) and also due the the increasing evangelicization of the church in Africa (by which I mean there's outside pressure to confirm to more conservative social strictures).

FWIW, the Episcopalian church was once among the most liberal Christian denominations going -- the first to ordain women (Reform Judaism may have gotten there first, though, and to all these other milestones, too); the first to minister to openly gay congregants (ie, not try to convince them to be straight in accordance with God's will); and the first to ordain gay men. We even ordained the first female bishop in Boston just about the time that the NY bishop was refusing to ordain said friend's mother which, again, shows what the lack of central authority has wrought.

As for who is currently the most liberal Christian denomination going, my money's on the United Church of Christ (who are an amalgam of Congregationalists and... something else.

It's likely that, in future, there will be a split and there will be an Evangelical Episcopalian church and a not-Evangelical Episcopalian church. I'll remain nominally the latter. ;-)

[James Slusher]

An Episcopalian is a Catholic who doesn't have to admit he was wrong.

It's like the line from National Lampoon's Class reunion:

Guy1: Are you a religious man, sir?

Guy2: Hell, no. I'm Episcopalian!

[James Slusher]

An Episcopalian is a Catholic who doesn't have to admit he was wrong.

It's like the line from National Lampoon's Class reunion:

Guy1: Are you a religious man, sir?

Guy2: Hell, no. I'm Episcopalian!

[James Slusher]

An Episcopalian is a Catholic who doesn't have to admit he was wrong.

It's like the line from National Lampoon's Class reunion:

Guy1: Are you a religious man, sir?

Guy2: Hell, no. I'm Episcopalian!

[Mithras]

Damn, that was funny all three times.

[jvill]

As a Jew, I take great comfort in knowing John McCain is Christian.

[freeman]

I'm a hardcore Democrat, but this post is overeaching a bit.

First of all, McCain wasn't saying that being a Christian was more important than being Jewish or Muslim, he was saying that making denominational distinctions between Christians is something he doesn't believe in. Huge difference.

I'm related to an Episocpal Priest and work for the church (although I'm personally not religious). For those interested, Episcopal schism simply isn't going to happen. There might be a couple of Churches that claim to be Anglican, but that'll be twelve guys in a lifeboat at the end of the day. Partially (and never discount the importance of this sort of thing) because of economic pressures to remain a part of the larger Episcopal Church.

And, as a mainline denomination, the Episcopal Church remains a very healthy progressive church. One look at the new Presiding Bishop should settle that.

[Mithras]

McCain wasn't saying that being a Christian was more important than being Jewish or Muslim, he was saying that making denominational distinctions between Christians is something he doesn't believe in.

Well, certainly, you can spin it that way, but it's incredibly naive. We've all heard enough rightwing code speech to recognize it. You could argue he wasn't impugning non-Christian faiths and that what he was really saying is, "The important thing is that I am a man of faith" or some such, but please note: He didn't choose those words. He chose to say that the important thing is that he is a Christian. And secondly, even if you accept the statement as I revised it, I don't find it less troubling to be told that atheists suck and only religious people can become president.